PBS NewsHour Weekend full episode December 14. 2019

PBS NewsHour Weekend full episode December 14. 2019


>>Sreenivasan: ON THIS EDITION FOR SATURDAY, DECEMBER 14: A LOOK AT THE NEXT STEPS FOR THE IMPEACHMENT VOTE; IN OUR SIGNATURE SEGMENT, NEW HURDLES FOR PEACE IN AFGHANISTAN; AND ILLUSIONIST DERREN BROWN, PUSHING THE BOUNDARIES OF MENTALISM. NEXT ON PBS NEWSHOUR WEEKEND.FROM THE TISCH WNET STUDIOS ATLINCOLN CENTER IN NEW YORK,HARI SREENIVASAN.>>Sreenivasan: GOOD EVENING, AND THANKS FOR JOINING US. THE FULL HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, WHERE DEMOCRATS HAVE THE MAJORITY, IS EXPECTED TO VOTE ON TWO ARTICLES OF IMPEACHMENT OF PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP THIS COMING WEEK. IF PASSED, THE NEXT STAGE IS A TRIAL IN THE REPUBLICAN-MAJORITY SENATE. SENATE MAJORITY LEADER REPUBLICAN MITCH McCONNELL HAS SAID HE WOULD BE “SURPRISED” IF THERE ARE 67 VOTES TO REMOVE THE PRESIDENT FROM OFFICE, AND McCONNELL SAID THIS WEEK THAT HE IS TAKING HIS CUES FROM THE WHITE HOUSE IN SHAPING THE TRIAL.>>AND EVERYTHING I DO DURING THIS, I’M COORDINATING WITH WHITE HOUSE COUNSEL.>>Sreenivasan: DEMOCRATS IMMEDIATELY SAID THE COMMENTS SHOW THE MAJORITY LEADER IS NOT GOING TO BE IMPARTIAL AND CALLED FOR HIM TO RECUSE HIMSELF. JOINING US NOW FOR MORE ON WHAT COMES NEXT IN THE IMPEACHMENT PROCESS AND WHAT A TRIAL IN THE SENATE MAY LOOK LIKE IS RYAN GOODMAN. HE’S A PROFESSOR OF LAW AT NEW YORK UNIVERSITY AND CO-EDITOR IN CHIEF OF THE “JUST SECURITY” WEB SITE. SO, HERE WE ARE. WE’RE TECHNICALLY ALMOST OUT OF THE HOUSE. IT GOES TO THE SENATE NOW. AND THE RULES IN HOW IT’S EVEN PLAYED OUT ARE ONE OF THOSE THINGS THAT WE’RE NOW THINKING ABOUT.>>RIGHT. SO, THE CRITICAL NEXT QUESTION REALLY IS, WHAT WILL THOSE RULES BE? MITCH McCONNELL GETS TO, IN A CERTAIN SENSE, WRITE THEM AS LONG AS HE HAS A SIMPLE MAJORITY OF THE SENATE AGREEING WITH HIM. SO, IT’S THOSE CRITICAL REPUBLICANS RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE THAT DETERMINE WHAT THIS WILL LOOK LIKE. WILL THERE BE WITNESSES? HOW FAST WILL THE ENTIRE PROCESS TAKE? ARE THEY JUST TRYING TO GET THIS OUT OF THE WAY, OR ARE THEY TRYING TO MAKE IT LOOK A LITTLE BIT MORE ROBUST THAN THAT?>>Sreenivasan: NOW, THE WHITE HOUSE SAYS THEY WANT WITNESSES. THEY WANT HUNTER BIDEN ON THE STAND. THEY WANT NANCY PELOSI. THEY WANT A BUNCH OF OTHER PEOPLE. SO, IS THERE AN INCENTIVE, THEN?>>IF THEY OPEN THAT DOOR. IF THEY OPEN THAT DOOR TO SOME WITNESSES FOR THE PRESIDENT’S SIDE, IT’S GOING TO BE VERY HARD FOR THEM NOT TO ALLOW THE HOUSE MANAGERS TO BRING WITNESSES. AND THEN, THE KEY ONES ARE THE ONES THEY COULDN’T GET IN THE HOUSE. JOHN BOLTON, I THINK, WOULD BE THE STAR WITNESS. MICK MULVANEY WOULD BE PROBABLY NEXT ON THEIR WISH LIST. MAYBE RUDY GIULIANI, THOUGH HE’S NOT THE MOST RELIABLE WITNESS. AND I THINK THAT’S… THAT’S WHAT’S REALLY AT STAKE HERE. AND I THINK THE DEMOCRATS AND THE HOUSE MANAGERS HAVE A STRONG ARGUMENT: AS LONG AS THERE ARE ANY WITNESSES, WE WANT A REAL TRIAL. THESE ARE THE PEOPLE THAT YOU WANT TO HEAR FROM.>>Sreenivasan: AND IN THIS CASE THAT THERE IS A REAL TRIAL, WHAT IS THE ROLE OF THE CHIEF JUSTICE OF THE SUPREME COURT? IS HE LIKE A NORMAL JUDGE IN THESE THINGS? IS HE JUST WORKING WITHIN THE CONFINES OF WHATEVER THE RULES ARE THAT MITCH McCONNELL SETS UP?>>SO, THE CHIEF JUSTICE BASICALLY IS REGULATED BY THE RULES THEMSELVES. HE’S CONSTRICTED. AND IN A CERTAIN SENSE, IF THE RULES ARE ALREADY SET UP TO SAY NO WITNESSES, THERE’S NOTHING THAT HE CAN REALLY DO ABOUT IT. BUT IF THERE’S ANY WIGGLE ROOM– AND AS LAWYERS, THERE’S LOTS OF WIGGLE ROOM, AND YOU CAN INTERPRET CERTAIN RULES DIFFERENT WAYS– IF HE HAS AN INTERPRETATION OF THE RULES, THAT STICKS. THAT’S THE CHIEF JUSTICE PRESIDING OVER THE PROCEEDINGS. BUT HE CAN BE REBUTTED BY A SIMPLE MAJORITY. I THINK A LARGE PART OF THIS IS NOT ABOUT THE FORMAL RULES BUT THE LEGITIMACY OF HOW THEY DECIDE TO PROCEED. AND, YES, THERE MIGHT BE, AS MANY PEOPLE THINK, LIKE, AN ACQUITTAL IN THE SENATE. BUT THE QUESTION IS, IS IT AN ACQUITTAL THAT THE AMERICAN PUBLIC THINKS WAS A FAIR PROCESS AND A REAL TRIAL? IF, INDEED, IT COMES TO CERTAIN KEY QUESTIONS THAT THE CHIEF JUSTICE OF THE SUPREME COURT SAYS SHOULD BE “X” AND THEN A POLITICAL GROUP OF REPUBLICANS SAY “NOT X,” I THINK THAT’S GOING TO PUT THEM IN SOME JEOPARDY.>>Sreenivasan: AND, TECHNICALLY, ALL THE SENATORS ARE PART OF THE JURY. AND, OBVIOUSLY, WE HAVE NOW REPUBLICAN SENATORS THAT ARE SAYING, “WELL, WE HAVE ALREADY DECIDED,” BEFORE THEY’VE SEEN THE TRIAL. BUT THIS IS ALSO COMING DURING A PRESIDENTIAL SEASON, RIGHT, AND SO THERE ARE CAMPAIGN QUESTIONS THAT ARE HAPPENING. HOW LONG WILL THE SENATORS BE STICKING AROUND? ARE THEY GOING TO BE THERE WATCHING THIS THE ENTIRE TIME?>>YEAH, IT’S SUCH A STRANGE CONFLUENCE OF EVENTS AT THIS PARTICULAR MOMENT. IT LOOKS LIKE THE SENATE WILL START THE TRIAL WHEN THEY RETURN EARLY JANUARY, AND IT’S THE EXACT PERIOD OF TIME FOR THE DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY, HEADING IN TOWARDS IOWA. AND YOU HAVE MANY OF THE SENATORS WHO ARE UP FOR THAT PRIMARY.>>Sreenivasan: YEAH.>>SO, DO THEY HAVE TO BE SEATED FOR SIX DAYS A WEEK, RATHER THAN ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL? THAT’S ONE IMPLICATION OF IT.>>Sreenivasan: ALL RIGHT, RYAN GOODMAN FROM THE “JUST SECURITY” BLOG AND N.Y.U. LAW SCHOOL, THANKS SO MUCH.>>THANK YOU.>>Sreenivasan: IN MADRID TODAY, NEGOTIATIONS ON A U.N. CLIMATE CHANGE AGREEMENT STALLED AFTER TWO WEEKS OF TALKS. DELEGATES FROM NEARLY 200 COUNTRIES FAILED TO REACH A CONSENSUS ON ISSUES INCLUDING RULES FOR INTERNATIONAL CARBON MARKETS AND MONEY TO HELP POORER COUNTRIES COPE WITH CLIMATE CHANGE. ENVIRONMENTAL GROUPS CRITICIZED THE LATEST VERSION OF THE AGREEMENT AS “EXTREMELY WEAK,” AND MANY REPRESENTATIVES SAID THEY FEAR A BACKTRACK FROM COMMITMENTS MADE AT THE 2015 PARIS CLIMATE ACCORD. PRESIDENT TRUMP OFFICIALLY WITHDREW THE U.S. FROM THE PARIS ACCORD LAST MONTH. AS OF LATE THIS AFTERNOON, THERE WAS NO WORD ON WHETHER A COMPROMISE HAD BEEN REACHED. SUDAN’S FORMER PRESIDENT, OMAR AL-BASHIR, WAS CONVICTED OF MONEY LAUNDERING AND CORRUPTION IN A COURTROOM IN THE CAPITAL CITY OF KHARTOM TODAY. A JUDGE SENTENCED THE 75-YEAR- OLD AL-BASHIR TO TWO YEARS IN A MINIMUM-SECURITY REFORM FACILITY RATHER THAN A PRISON BECAUSE OF HIS AGE. AL-BASHIR WILL REMAIN IN JAIL TO FACE MORE SERIOUS CHARGES RELATED TO THE KILLING OF ANTI- GOVERNMENT PROTESTERS. THE MILITARY DEPOSED AL-BASHIR IN APRIL FOLLOWING MONTHS OF STREET PROTESTS. HE HAD RULED SUDAN FOR 30 YEARS. IN INDIA, THOUSANDS OF DEMONSTRATORS GATHERED IN NEW DELHI TODAY TO VOICE THEIR OPPOSITION TO A NEW CITIZENSHIP AMENDMENT BILL. THE BILL GRANTS INDIAN CITIZENSHIP TO MOST RELIGIOUS MINORITIES EXCEPT MUSLIMS WHO ARE FLEEING RELIGIOUS PERSECUTION FROM NEIGHBORING COUNTRIES. THAT WOULD EXCLUDE, AMONG OTHERS, ROHINGYA MUSLIMS WHO HAVE ESCAPED RELIGIOUS PERSECUTION IN MYANMAR. PROTESTS CONTINUED YESTERDAY, SOMETIMES VIOLENTLY, BETWEEN POLICE AND UNIVERSITY STUDENTS. THE HINDU NATIONALIST-LED GOVERNMENT OF PRIME MINISTER NARENDRA MODI INTRODUCED THE CONTROVERSIAL BILL WHICH HAS PASSED BOTH HOUSES OF PARLIAMENT. IT WILL BECOME LAW ONCE SIGNED BY INDIA’S CEREMONIAL PRESIDENT. TENS OF THOUSANDS OF SARDINES TOOK OVER ROME’S PIAZZA SAN GIOVANNI TODAY– NOT THE FISH, MEMBERS OF A NEW MOVEMENT OPPOSED TO THE ANTI-IMMIGRANT POLITICS OF FAR-RIGHT LEADER MATTEO SALVINI. THE SARDINES HELD UP BANNERS AND CALLED ON ITALY TO RESIST SALVINI AND HIS LEAGUE PARTY’S ITALY-FIRST RHETORIC. CRITICS OF SALVINI SAY THAT THE LEAGUE, ITALY’S BIGGEST POLITICAL PARTY, PROMOTES HATRED OF IMMIGRANTS. MORE THAN 10,000 PEOPLE JOINED THE SARDINE MOVEMENT’S FIRST PROTEST IN BOLOGNA AT THE BEGINNING OF NOVEMBER. A CO-FOUNDER OF THE MOVEMENT SAYS THE NAME REFLECTS THE NUMBERS OF PEOPLE WHO OPPOSE SALVINI. HE REPORTEDLY SAID, “WE ARE LIKE A SHOAL OF SARDINES. THERE ARE FAR MORE OF US THAN THE SHARKS.”>>Sreenivasan: AN INSIDER ATTACK IN EASTERN AFGHANISTAN OVERNIGHT HAS LEFT AT LEAST 23 AFGHAN SOLDIERS DEAD. OFFICIALS SAID THE ATTACK TOOK PLACE IN A MILITARY BASE IN GHAZNI PROVINCE. THE SOLDIERS HAD BEEN SLEEPING WHEN A TALIBAN INFILTRATOR WHO WAS ON DUTY AT THE BASE SHOT AND KILLED THEM BEFORE TAKING WEAPONS AND EQUIPMENT AND RETURNING TO THE TALIBAN INSURGENCY. THIS LATEST ATTACK COMES JUST AFTER THE UNITED STATES TOOK WHAT IT’S CALLING A PAUSE IN PEACE TALKS WITH THE TALIBAN AND AFTER AN EARLIER ATTACK WEDNESDAY THAT KILLED TWO AFGHAN CIVILIANS AND WOUNDED DOZENS MORE NEAR BAGRAM AIRFIELD. BUT IF AND WHEN THOSE TALKS RESUME, THEY’RE STILL LEAVING MAJOR PLAYERS OUT OF THE CONVERSATION– THE AFGHAN GOVERNMENT ITSELF, AS WELL AS OTHER PROMINENT FIGURES. NEWSHOUR WEEKEND SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT JANE FERGUSON HAS OUR STORY.>>Reporter: IN THIS STUNNING CORNER OF NORTHERN AFGHANISTAN CALLED THE PANJSHIR VALLEY, THE TAJIK PEOPLE HAVE LONG CLAIMED THEIR ANCESTRAL HOME. IT’S FROM THESE LANDS THAT FOR CENTURIES TAJIKS LAUNCHED CAMPAIGNS AGAINST INVADERS AND OTHER ENEMIES, MOST RECENTLY THE TALIBAN. ON THIS DAY, THE 30-YEAR-OLD TAJIK LEADER AHMAD MASSOUD IS READY TO LAUNCH A NEW KIND OF CAMPAIGN AS HE BEGINS A POLITICAL CAREER TO LEAD HIS PEOPLE.>>WE THINK THIS IS A GOLDEN OPPORTUNITY FOR AFGHANISTAN; THAT, FOR THE VERY FIRST TIME, A SUPERPOWER SUCH AS AMERICA AND REGIONAL POWERS SUCH AS RUSSIA, CHINA, PAKISTAN, IRAN AND OTHER COUNTRIES, THEY ALL AGREE THAT A PEACE MUST COME AND THE WAR MUST END IN AFGHANISTAN.>>Reporter: IMPORTANT GUESTS GATHER AT HIS FAMILY HOMESTEAD, AND PEACE TALKS BETWEEN THE U.S. AND THE TALIBAN ARE ALL THAT ANYONE WANTS TO DISCUSS. OVER BREAKFAST IN THE GARDEN, MASSOUD SAYS HE IS WELL AWARE OF THE WHITE HOUSE’S DETERMINATION TO PULL AMERICAN TROOPS OUT OF AFGHANISTAN. HIS PEOPLE HAVE BEEN ALLIED WITH THE AMERICANS FROM THE START, AND THEY KNOW ANY OPPORTUNITY FOR PEACE IS PRECIOUS.>>SO, WE NEED, YOU KNOW, TO BE VERY GRATEFUL AND TO USE IT WITH UTMOST KIND OF RESPECT AND CLARITY SO THE PEOPLE TRUST AND BELIEVE AND BE A PART OF THIS, SEEM TO BE A PART OF THIS PEACE PROCESS. THAT’S… FIRST AND FOREMOST, THAT’S HOW IMPORTANT AND HOW CRITICAL AND HOW AMAZING THIS OPPORTUNITY IS.>>Reporter: DESPITE THIS OPPORTUNITY, IT COMES WITH SKEPTICISM AND BAD MEMORIES OF THE TIME BEFORE THE WAR WHEN THE TALIBAN RULED. BACK THEN, MASSOUD’S FATHER TRIED TO MAKE PEACE WITH THEM.>>MY FATHER, ALL ALONE, HE WENT TO THE CENTER IN THE CAMP OF TALIBAN WITH NO GUARDS, WITH NO BODYGUARDS, WITH NOTHING, JUST WITH THE SIMPLE FACT AND INTENTION THAT “I WANT TO END THIS WAR AND LET’S MAKE A PEACE.” THEY DID NOT ACCEPT IT, AND THEY CONTINUED, YOU KNOW, THE WAR. THEY CONTINUED THE BLOODSHED.>>Reporter: MASSOUD’S FATHER, AHMAD SHAH MASSOUD, WAS A LEGENDARY TAJIK MILITIA COMMANDER WHO HAD LED AFGHAN FORCES AGAINST THE SOVIET INVASION IN THE 1980s. MOSCOW FINALLY PULLED OUT IN 1989, AND HE FOUGHT THE TALIBAN WHEN IT SEIZED POWER SHORTLY AFTER. FOR YEARS, HE CAUTIONED THE U.S. ABOUT THE GROWING THREAT OF A RADICAL NEW GROUP BASING ITSELF IN AFGHANISTAN CALLED AL QAEDA. THEN, TWO DAYS BEFORE 9/11, AL QAEDA ASSASSINS KILLED HIM, REMOVING A LEADER WHO WOULD HAVE BEEN A CRUCIAL STRATEGIC PARTNER IN AMERICA’S MILITARY RESPONSE TO THE TERROR ATTACKS. THE ELDER MASSOUD’S LEGACY REMAINS COLOSSAL AMONG HIS PEOPLE, WHO NOW WOULD WELCOME AN END TO THE FIGHTING– BUT, THEY SAY, NOT AT ANY PRICE.>>UNFORTUNATELY, HOW THE PEACE PROCESS HAS BEEN MANAGED SO FAR, IT’S NOT CLEAR WHAT ARE THE THINGS THAT THEY ARE SIGNING WITH THE TALIBAN, WHAT’S THE AGREEMENT WITH THE TALIBAN.>>Reporter: IT’S HIGHLY LIKELY THE TALIBAN WILL TRY TO GRAB POWER IN KABUL. WHAT HAPPENS?>> AND KEEP THEIR FORCES. WELL, IN THAT CASE, THIS IS NOT A PEACE. THIS IS A COUP, AND WE DO NOT HAVE A GOOD EXPERIENCES IN OUR HISTORY, YOU KNOW, FROM COUPS. AND WE DO NOT ACCEPT IT. WE DO NOT ALLOW IT.>>Reporter: WOULD YOU FIGHT THE TALIBAN IN THAT CASE?>>IF THEY WANT AN OPPRESSIVE IDEOLOGY, IF THEY WANT TO FORCE THEIR IDEOLOGY AND THEIR BELIEF AND THEIR SYSTEM, THEIR POLITICAL SYSTEM AND STRUCTURE UPON THE PEOPLE OF AFGHANISTAN WITH GUN AND WITH FORCE, IN THAT CASE, WE ARE HERE TO DEFEND OUR PEOPLE.>>Reporter: BRINGING HOME AMERICAN TROOPS FROM AFGHANISTAN WAS A MAJOR CAMPAIGN PLEDGE BY PRESIDENT TRUMP IN 2016. IN SEPTEMBER, HE CAME CLOSE TO A DEAL WITH THE TALIBAN THAT WOULD HAVE SEEN THE START OF A DRAWDOWN OF U.S. TROOPS. THAT DEAL FELL THROUGH, BUT, DURING A SURPRISE THANKSGIVING TRIP TO AFGHANISTAN, TRUMP DECLARED THAT TALKS WILL START ONCE AGAIN. ALL THIS BACK-AND-FORTH IS LEAVING PEOPLE IN THE PANJSHIR VALLEY WORRIED. AS THE YOUNG MASSOUD ADDRESSES HIS FOLLOWERS IN THE SHADOW OF HIS FATHER’S MAUSOLEUM, THERE IS DEEP ANXIETY THAT TRUMP WILL GIVE TOO MUCH AWAY TO THE TALIBAN IN HIS RUSH TO LEAVE THE COUNTRY.>>(translated): THEY ARE ADDRESSING THEM AS THOUGH THEY ARE ADDRESSING THEM AS A POWERFUL GROUP, AND THEY WANT TO BRING THEM INTO THE POLITICAL STAGE OF AFGHANISTAN. IF THE AMERICANS DO THAT, WE WILL FIGHT THE TALIBAN.>>Reporter: THERE’S ALSO APPREHENSION OVER THE SIGHT OF TALIBAN COMMANDERS– FOR SO MANY YEARS OSTRACIZED– NOW TRAVELLING THE WORLD TREATED LIKE DIGNITARIES. AN INFORMAL AMNESTY HAS ENABLED THEIR LEADERS TO TRAVEL INTERNATIONALLY TO DISCUSS THE PEACE TALKS.>>(translated): PEOPLE ARE WORRIED THAT THE TALIBAN ARE BEING MADE STRONGER BY THE AMERICANS. THEY WANT TO BRING THEM BACK INTO POWER IN A BRUTAL WAY. THAT’S WHY PEOPLE ARE CONCERNED.>>Reporter: U.S. ENVOY FOR AFGHAN RECONCILIATION, ZALMAY KHALILZAD, HAS SAID AMERICA WANTS TO CREATE PEACE BETWEEN ALL AFGHAN FACTIONS.>>MY OVERALL GOAL IS, AT THE DIRECTION OF THE PRESIDENT AND THE SECRETARY OF STATE, NOT TO SEEK A WITHDRAWAL AGREEMENT BUT A PEACE AGREEMENT. THE OTHER ISSUES THAT MUST BE DEALT WITH ARE ISSUES OF A ROADMAP FOR AFGHANISTAN’S POLITICAL FUTURE TO END THE AFGHAN WAR.>>Reporter: IT’S NOT CLEAR YET IF A DEAL BETWEEN THE U.S. AND THE TALIBAN WOULD ALSO LEAD TO A DEAL BETWEEN THE TALIBAN AND THE CURRENT GOVERNMENT IN KABUL. SO FAR, THE GROUP HAS REFUSED TO RECOGNIZE THE AFGHAN GOVERNMENT, CALLING IT AN AMERICAN PUPPET. MEANWHILE, IF THE U.S. RUSHES TO LEAVE WITHOUT GUARANTEES, THERE’S A STRONG POSSIBILITY OF A DEADLY SCHISM AMONG NON-TALIBAN GROUPS SIMILAR TO THAT OF THE 1990s WHEN COMPETING ETHNIC MILITIAS LED BY WARLORDS BATTLED FOR CONTROL OF KABUL’S STREETS AND THE ENTIRE COUNTRY. IS THAT A RISK?>>ABSOLUTELY. AND THAT’S WHY IT MUST BE HANDLED VERY CAREFULLY AND DELICATELY.>>Reporter: HAMDULLAH MOHIB IS THE NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER TO THE AFGHAN PRESIDENT.>>I THINK WE HAVE BEEN INSISTING ON AN AFGHAN-LED AND AFGHAN-OWNED PROCESS NOT BECAUSE JUST FOR THE MATTER OF PROTOCOL. IT’S BECAUSE WE HAVE SEEN FAILED PEACE PROCESSES IN AFGHANISTAN THAT HAVE RESULTED IN VIOLENCE AND DESTRUCTION IN OUR COUNTRY IN THE PAST– AND NOT IN A VERY FARAWAY PAST; VERY RECENT PAST. IN MY LIFETIME, WE HAVE SEEN THAT.>>Reporter: SO FAR, THE KABUL GOVERNMENT HAS BEEN LOCKED OUT OF NEGOTIATIONS BY WASHINGTON. YET, THERE’S NO AVOIDING, IF THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION MAKES A DEAL WITH THE TALIBAN, TALKS BETWEEN THE GROUP AND THE AFGHAN GOVERNMENT WOULD BE THE NEXT, MORE DIFFICULT STEP.>>AN INTRA-AFGHAN NEGOTIATION WILL ENCOMPASS MUCH MORE. IT WILL TALK ABOUT GOVERNANCE AND HOW THE COUNTRY IS… IS RUN IN THE FUTURE. IT WILL TALK ABOUT POWER SHARING, HOW DO WE READJUST OUR SECURITY FORCES, POLITICAL POSTURING, OUR FOREIGN POLICIES. IT WILL INCLUDE A LOT OF DIFFERENT ASPECTS. AND TO BE ABLE TO COME TO AN AGREEMENT ON THAT WILL DEFINITELY REQUIRE TIME, AND IT WILL BE… IT WILL BE A DIFFICULT PHASE.>>Reporter: EXACTLY WHAT KIND OF AFGHAN GOVERNMENT THE TALIBAN WOULD TALK TO, HOWEVER, IS NOT CLEAR. SEPTEMBER’S PRESIDENTIAL ELECTIONS IN AFGHANISTAN WERE A DISASTER DUE TO LOW VOTER TURNOUT AND DISPUTES OVER THE RESULTS. TWO MONTHS AFTER VOTING, A WINNER HAS YET TO BE ANNOUNCED WHILE CAMPAIGNS FOR BOTH INCUMBENT PRESIDENT ASHRAF GHANI AND HIS COMPETITOR, DR. ABDULLAH ABDULLAH, ARE CLAIMING VICTORY. TRUMP’S MEETING WITH THE AFGHAN LEADER ON HIS THANKSGIVING VISIT TO AFGHANISTAN IS SEEN AS VALIDATION BY GHANI’S CAMP, BUT THERE IS STILL NO GUARANTEE THE TALIBAN WILL RECOGNIZE HIS LEGITIMACY. FORMER MUJAHIDEEN WARLORD AND FOLLOWER OF MASSOUD, GUL HAIDER, BATTLED THE TALIBAN AND AL QAEDA ALONGSIDE THE C.I.A. AND U.S. SPECIAL FORCES IN EARLY 2002. HE SAYS THE MAIN CHALLENGE FOR ANY AFGHAN GOVERNMENT WILL BE GETTING THE TALIBAN TO LAY DOWN ARMS.>>(translated): MANY OF THE SONS OF FORMER COMMANDERS IN THE MUJAHIDEEN ARE FIGHTING AND DYING WITHIN THE SECURITY FORCES. IN THAT SITUATION, IF THEY BRING THE TALIBAN BACK INTO POLITICS, THEN THAT WILL CREATE A BACKLASH BECAUSE THEY HAVE COMMITTED A LOT OF ATROCITIES. IF THE LEADERSHIP WANT TO BE IN GOVERNMENT, THEN ALL THE TALIBAN SHOULD SURRENDER. THEIR FIGHTERS SHOULD LEAVE THEIR WEAPONS, AND THEY SHOULD BE REINTRODUCED INTO THE GOVERNMENT FORCES. I AM NOT AFRAID OF FIGHTING THE TALIBAN. BACK THEN, WE FOUGHT THEM WITH OUR BARE HANDS.>>Reporter: BACK IN THE PANJSHIR, MOST ARE RESIGNED TO AMERICAN TROOPS ONE DAY PACKING UP AND GOING.>>I’M NOT NERVOUS ABOUT AMERICANS LEAVING. THEY CAME WITH THEIR OWN WILL, AND THEY WILL LEAVE WITH THEIR OWN WILL. BUT THE PEOPLE OF AFGHANISTAN ALWAYS STOOD ON THEIR GROUND, AND THEY NEVER LET ANY INVASION TO BE SUCCESSFUL. AND IF ANY OTHER INVASION HAPPENS, IF ANY OTHER WAR BREAKS OUT, AGAIN, MY TRUST IS IN AFGHAN PEOPLE NOT AMERICANS.>>Reporter: PERSUADING AFGHANS LIKE AHMAD MASSOUD THAT AN AMERICAN DEAL WITH THE TALIBAN IS A WITHDRAWAL AND NOT A SURRENDER WILL BE TOUGH; LEAVING BEHIND A COUNTRY AT PEACE, EVEN TOUGHER.>>Sreenivasan: IN MORE THAN A DOZEN TELEVISION SPECIALS AND STAGE SHOWS IN HIS NATIVE ENGLAND, ILLUSIONIST DERREN BROWN HAS SHOWCASED A WIDE RANGE OF NEARLY IMPOSSIBLE ABILITIES, INCLUDING CONVINCING ORDINARY PEOPLE TO TAKE ALARMING ACTIONS. IN HIS DEBUT BROADWAY SHOW, BROWN SEEMINGLY READS THE MINDS OF THE ENTIRE CROWD. I RECENTLY ASKED BROWN ABOUT WHAT MAKES HIS BRAND OF MAGIC– OR “MENTALISM,” AS HE CALLS IT– APPEALING TO AUDIENCES. IN THIS STAGE SHOW “MIRACLE” PERFORMED IN LONDON, BROWN TOOK ON THE ILLUSION OF FAITH HEALING AND APPEARS TO “HEAL” AN AUDIENCE MEMBER WITH BAD EYESIGHT.>>OPEN YOUR EYES. LET’S HAVE A LOOK. OKAY. DOES IT LOOK ANY CLEARER TO YOU?>>”TURN OFF THE SHOWER IF YOU’VE BEEN OUT FOR A WEEK.”>>THIS IS EFFORTLESS. THIS IS EFFORTLESS. YOUR EYESIGHT IS HEALED. YOU DON’T NEED THESE ANYMORE. YOU CAN THROW THOSE GLASSES AWAY.>>Sreenivasan: YOU GO OUT OF YOUR WAY TO TELL PEOPLE YOU ARE NOT A PSYCHIC, YOU’RE NOT A FAITH HEALER. WHAT DO YOUDO?>>I’M TECHNICALLY A MENTALIST.>>Sreenivasan: YEAH, WHAT’S A “MENTALIST” MEAN?>>WELL… EXACTLY. IT’S… SO, IT’S LIKE A BRANCH OF SORT OF MAGIC, I GUESS, BUT IT DEALS WITH THE MIND RATHER THAN, YOU KNOW, FINDING YOUR PLAYING CARD OR… OR PULLING A RABBIT OUT OF A HAT. WHAT YOU’RE SEEING IS KIND OF MIND READING AND INFLUENCE AT WORK IN A… IN AN AUDIENCE PARTICIPATION-BASED SHOW.>>Sreenivasan: HOW DO YOU MIND READ OR INFLUENCE IN SUCH A LARGE CROWD?>>I HAVE TO WORK WITH RANDOM AUDIENCE MEMBERS, OTHERWISE IT COULD JUST LOOK LIKE, YOU KNOW, EVERYONE’S A PLANT. CONNIE, VERY NICE TO MEET YOU. I’M DARREN. AND SLEEP. I’VE GOT YOU. RIGHT THE WAY DOWN. RIGHT THE WAY DEEP.>>Sreenivasan: THE SUSPICION THAT AUDIENCE MEMBERS ARE IN ON THE ACT IS HEIGHTENED IN A SHOW LIKE BROWN’S. AS THIS PRESS EVENT, BROWN CLAIMS TO READ A WOMAN’S MIND, GUESSING CORRECTLY WHICH AUDIENCE MEMBER SHE WAS PICTURING IN HER HEAD.>>DANIEL AND DAVID, SIT DOWN. ACTUALLY, JUSTIN, YOUCANSIT DOWN. AND THAT SHOULD JUST LEAVE ONE OF YOU, IF YOU’RE STILL STANDING. RIGHT, ONE PERSON LEFT. YOUR NAME IS?>>BRENDAN.>>BRENDAN. TURN IT AROUND. WHO WERE YOU THINKING OF? BRENDAN! EXCELLENT! WELL DONE. I THINK THERE’S A FEELING THAT CREEPS IN THAT YOU’RE THE ONLY REAL PERSON IN THE AUDIENCE, AND EVERYBODY ELSE IS IN ON IT. I… I HEAR THAT QUITE A LOT.>>Sreenivasan: THE STAGE SHOW THAT AT LEAST YOU HAVE HERE IN NEW YORK RIGHT NOW, IT’S KIND OF A LONG PROCESS, AND YOU’RE BUILDING TOWARDS A THESIS THROUGHOUT THE PROGRAM. AND THE AUDIENCE IS KIND OF REVEALED ONE LAYER AFTER ANOTHER AFTER ANOTHER, AND, AT THE END, THEY’RE… WELL, HOPEFULLY, THEY’RE IMPRESSED.>>WHAT ANY MAGICIAN DOES IS A GREAT ANALOGY FOR HOW WE INTERPRET THE WORLD. YOU KNOW, YOU… YOU’RE A MAGICIAN OF ANY SORT– OF WHICH I AM, AND I’VE GOT ONE FOOT IN THAT WORLD– IS MAKING YOU PAY ATTENTION TO CERTAIN ELEMENTS OF A STORY AND JOIN UP THE DOTS IN THE WAY THAT HE WANTS YOU TO OR SHE WANTS YOU TO. AND, OF COURSE, THIS IS WHAT WE DO IN LIFE ALL THE TIME. WE HAVE THIS INFINITE DATA SOURCE COMING AT US. WE EDIT AND DELETE THAT TO MAKE SENSE OF WHAT’S GOING ON. WE NEED TO FORM A NARRATIVE, AND THEN WE MISTAKE THAT NARRATIVE FOR THE TRUTH.>>Sreenivasan: WHAT ARE THE THINGS THAT YOU’RE LOOKING FOR TO SAY, “THIS IS SOMEBODY THAT I CAN WORK WITH”?>>I THROW UP FRISBEES TO CHOOSE PEOPLE AND WITHIN A SECOND OF HOW SOMEBODY CATCHES THE FRISBEE AND JUST SAYS… PUTS THEIR HAND UP AND SAYS HELLO OR SAYS THEIR NAME, I KNOW EXACTLY HOW THEY’RE GOING TO BE ONSTAGE. IT’S LIKE A LITTLE MICROCOSM OF HOW THEY ARE ON STAGE. AND HOW THEY ARE ON STAGE IS A MICROCOSM OF HOW THEY’RE GOING TO BE IN LIFE. AND A THING THAT I… I LEARNED WHICH I FOUND VERY HELPFUL JUST FOR MYSELF JUST FROM DOING THESE SHOWS IS, IF PEOPLE COME UP AND THEY’RE NERVOUS– WHICH, OF COURSE, THEY ARE BECAUSE IT’S A BAFFLING, WEIRD SITUATION– IT’S WHAT THEY DO WITH THOSE NERVES. IF THEY’RE JUST NERVOUS, AND IF WE ARE JUST NERVOUS WHEN WE’RE NERVOUS, THE AUDIENCE LOVE THEM, RIGHT? THE AUDIENCE ARE FEELING VICARIOUSLY, “WELL, THAT COULD BE ME UP THERE.”>>Sreenivasan: THEY EMPATHIZE.>>THEY’RE SEEING THEM AS VULNER… VULNERABLE, AND VULNERABILITY IS A STRENGTH WHEN IT’S PERCEIVED BY OTHER PEOPLE. IT DOESN’T FEEL VERY STRONG AT THE TIME, BUT, TO EVERYBODY WATCHING, IT… IT FEELS LIKE STRENGTH.>>Sreenivasan: SO, YOU ALMOST WANT TO ROOT FOR THEM VERSUS YOU.>>EXACTLY.>>Sreenivasan: BROWN HAS ADAPTED THE PRINCIPLES OF MENTALISM FOR TV, SHOWING HOW THE SAME METHODS OF SUGGESTION AND INFLUENCE USED FOR HIS STAGE SHOWS CAN WORK IN THE REAL WORLD. IN HIS SPECIAL, “THE PUSH,” BROWN ORCHESTRATES AN ELABORATE SETUP WITH ACTORS TO CONVINCE AN UNWITTING PARTICIPANT TO PUSH A STRANGER OFF A ROOF.>>JUST GIVE HIM ONE BIG PUSH.>>Sreenivasan: THAT SEEMS LIKE AN INSANE PROPOSITION FROM THE GET GO. FIRST OF ALL, WHY WOULD YOU EVENWANTTO DO THAT?>>WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO DO THAT, RIGHT? (LAUGHS)>>Sreenivasan: BUT THEN, SECONDLY, BY THE TIME YOU GET TO THE END, IT’S SORT OF A STUNNING REVEAL.>>WHAT I TEND TO DO WITH THESE IS LARGE-SCALE “TRUMAN SHOW”- STYLE SET-UP SO THERE’S NORMALLY ONE PERSON GOING THROUGH IT THAT DOESN’T KNOW THAT THEY’RE PART OF A TV SHOW. THERE’S ALL THESE ACTORS, AND… AND IT’S THIS SORT OF DARK PSYCHOLOGICAL JOURNEY. SO, THE POINT WAS, THROUGH SOCIAL COMPLIANCE, COULD YOU PUSH SOMEONE TO COMMIT MURDER?>>Sreenivasan: OUR INTERVIEW WITH ILLUSIONIST DERREN BROWN CONTINUES HERE, OR WATCH OUR EXTENDED INTERVIEW AT facebook.com/newshour.>>Sreenivasan: YOU’RE SORT OF PULLING THE AUDIENCE ON-CAMERA ASIDE AND EXPLAINING WHAT’S HAPPENING, WHICH I THINK IS SOMETHING VERY STRANGE TO A U.S. AUDIENCE THINKING ABOUT MAGIC BECAUSE “WAIT, HE’S TELLING US HOW HE’S DOING IT. “>>YEAH, BUT THERE’S NO MAGIC TRICKS IN IT.CHRIS IS ENMESHED IN A WEB OFLIES.AND THAT’S IMPORTANT.I NEED HIM TO FEEL LIKE THERE’SONLY ONE WAY OUT WHEN HE’S TOLDTO COMMIT MURDER.YOU’RE NOW WATCHING A REAL PERSON GO… GOING THROUGH A REALLY, YOU KNOW, A DRAMATIC SITUATION THAT’S UNFOLDING. SO, YEAH, HE… AND THE POINT OF IT IS TO SHOW ABOUT SOCIAL COMPLIANCE. AND WHAT THE… THE PEOPLE THAT DID IT– AND I DON’T WANT TO GIVE AWAY THE ENDING OF THE SHOW– BUT FROM THESE… FROM THESE THINGS THAT I DO COME AWAY VERY OFTEN WITH A SENSE OF… THEY ALL COME OUT FEELING AMAZING ABOUT IT EVEN IF IT LOOKS LIKE A VERY DARK AND RECKLESS JOURNEY.>>Sreenivasan: ONE OF THE OTHER ONES, “SACRIFICE…”>>THERE IS ABSOLUTELY AN IMMIGRATION PROBLEM IN THE… IN THE UNITED STATES.>>YES, I’M TAKING SOMEONE WHO’S ESSENTIALLY KIND OF RACIST AND… AND SEEING IF THEY’LL LAY DOWN THEIR LIFE FOR AN ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT. HE WAS CAUGHT UP IN A NARRATIVE FOR HIS OWN SOCIO… SOCIO- ECONOMIC PRESSURES THAT HE WAS UNDER, AND HE HAD A PARTICULAR NARRATIVE ABOUT MEXICAN PEOPLE AND WHAT THAT MEANT AND WHAT THEIR… WHAT THEIR MOTIVES WERE. AND… AND THE… THE KEY WAS TO UNDO THAT AND ACTUALLY…>>Sreenivasan: TO BREAK THE STORY IN HIS HEAD.>>HAVE HIM SEE REAL PEOPLE. AND THIS ISN’T A KIND OF… THOSE KIND OF MAKEOVER-Y TYPE SHOWS WHERE PEOPLE ARE BEING SPAT OUT ON A CONVEYOR BELT EVERY WEEK. THESE… THESE THINGS TAKE MAYBE EIGHT MONTHS TO MAKE. I DO ONE OF THEM A YEAR, AND IT’S A HUGE THING FOR SOMEBODY TO GO THROUGH. SO, I’VE ALWAYS REMAINED FRIENDS WITH THEM.>>Sreenivasan: ARE YOU CONCERNED THAT THESE PEOPLE MIGHT HAVE P.T.S.D. AFTER SURVIVING SOMETHING LIKE THIS?>>WELL, I WOULD BE IF WE… IF WE TREATED THEM IRRESPONSIBLY. BUT DESPITE HOW RECKLESS THE SHOWS CAN LOOK, THEY’RE INCREDIBLY WELL HANDLED AND VETTED. AND IN TERMS OF THE SORT OF DUTY OF CARE AFTERWARDS, ALL OF THAT IS HUGE. AND I’VE JUST STAYED IN TOUCH WITH THEM FOREVER, AND THEY’VE ALL SAID IT’S THE BEST THING THEY’VE EVER DONE ASIDE FROM, YOU KNOW, WEDDINGS AND HAVING CHILDREN.>>Sreenivasan: (LAUGHS)>>Sreenivasan: FINALLY TONIGHT, TODAY MARKS SEVEN YEARS SINCE THE MASS MURDER OF 20 FIRST GRADERS AND SIX ADULTS AT THE SANDY HOOK ELEMENTARY SCHOOL IN NEWTOWN, CONNECTICUT, ON DECEMBER 14, 2012. VIGILS AND CHURCH SERVICES WERE HELD IN NEARBY TOWNS, AND CONNECTICUT’S GOVERNOR ORDERED ALL STATE AND U.S. FLAGS TO BE FLOWN AT HALF-STAFF FROM SUNRISE TO SUNSET TODAY. THAT’S ALL FOR THIS EDITION OF PBS NEWSHOUR WEEKEND. I’M HARI SREENIVASAN. THANKS FOR WATCHING. HAVE A GOOD NIGHT.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *